Your thoughts please?

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Inthedoghouse
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Good evening All.

On a field yesterday that generally produces a lot of lead (that’s for another time!) I found this lovely little..well..Please tell me what you think?
Around 25mm across and heavy in the hand for a small item, bronze I would say, it was one of those finds quite deep down on pasture and crusty but once I started to clean it I couldn’t believe the dark patina and whatever its purpose and age I absolutely love it!
I have found others like it in the past but they were more iron and less appealing.
There appears to be a more flat side (reverse) and the front there looks to have been some detail, in the first pic to the right you can see a square indentation that I would have thought would have received some kind of fixing for a pin or clasp.

Thanks in advance
Chris
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Wackers
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It has the look of an annular brooch with that little flat spot possibly where the pin located.
Is there any mark 180 degrees opposite this where the pin would have rotated on the ring?
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fred
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To me the sharp edge on the inside means that it can't be a strap distributor so I'd go for a button frame. :thumbsup:
Inthedoghouse
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Wackers wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:00 pm It has the look of an annular brooch with that little flat spot possibly where the pin located.
Is there any mark 180 degrees opposite this where the pin would have rotated on the ring?
I couldn’t see anything opposite but I know what you mean as I thought the same thing, I thought medieval..thanks for your help :thumbsup:
Inthedoghouse
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fred wrote: To me the sharp edge on the inside means that it can't be a strap distributor so I'd go for a button frame. :thumbsup:
Hi Fred

Thanks for your reply, it aways opens my mind to the possibilities! It’s what I like about this forum and the knowledge freely available.
I have to be honest though (and I’ve poured over the PAS) I can’t see the likeness to a button frame but it’s easier for me to say having it in my hand with closer inspection and seeing more likeness to an annular brooch though :)
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Easylife
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fred wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:13 pm To me the sharp edge on the inside means that it can't be a strap distributor so I'd go for a button frame. :thumbsup:
The inside looks smooth to me.
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Inthedoghouse
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Easylife wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:02 pm The inside looks smooth to me.
Hi Easylife

On the PAS I can only seem to see copper alloy as a suggested metal, the one I have here is bronze, the difference from the copper alloy ones I have is strikingly different! I don’t know if that makes a difference to dating it or a difference to its purpose??
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Oxgirl
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I have found quite a few of these types of ring things on my permissions. They are a type of bronze and have a lovely patina. The ones with this nice patina that I’ve found are on sites that are predominantly medieval to Tudor - not a definite dating method but gives possible dates.

On use they can be a crude buckle, with a wrapped iron or copper pin that is either missing or has rotted away. That might be because they have been re used as a fastener rather than because they started off life that way. Rings like these were cast in moulds so can have rough edges and this would indicate a utilitarian use as a strap junction or similar. Most of the ones I’ve found have been finished off and so have smooth edges and clearly display the file marks showing how this was done.

So yes it could possibly have been re used as a buckle/ brooch but the finish doesn’t point to it having started life that way.
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Inthedoghouse
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Thanks Oxgirl that’s an interesting angle, and the re use of such things hadn’t crossed my mind but does make sense, I think sometimes ( and I know I do) I tend to manifest an idea and not think outside the box!
It is on a area where I do predominantly find medieval and later and very occasionally Roman which is why with something like this being bronze and crude I was more open minded, it’s going to remain something that I will cherish but never really know why :thumbsup:
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Charles Abbeyville
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Here is an annoying image of your find; annoying because it calls it "Celtic ring money", :pulling hair out: where they get that idea from I don't know.
https://www.numiscorner.com/collections ... ring-money

We all find these rings and I did find one once on pasture that still had a dirty white thread wound around a small part of it. Hard to believe I know but perhaps it was because the thread was waxy?
I feel they were to fasten clothing, something like a clothing hook to this ring? I don't know. (We would all like to know) :thumbsup:
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alloverover
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Inthedoghouse wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:13 pm Hi Easylife

On the PAS I can only seem to see copper alloy as a suggested metal, the one I have here is bronze, the difference from the copper alloy ones I have is strikingly different! I don’t know if that makes a difference to dating it or a difference to its purpose??
I think you might find bronze is a copper alloy Inthedoghouse ;)
Inthedoghouse
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alloverover wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:11 am I think you might find bronze is a copper alloy Inthedoghouse ;)
Ah you got me there!
Inthedoghouse
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Charles Abbeyville wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:00 am Here is an annoying image of your find; annoying because it calls it "Celtic ring money", :pulling hair out: where they get that idea from I don't know.
https://www.numiscorner.com/collections ... ring-money

We all find these rings and I did find one once on pasture that still had a dirty white thread wound around a small part of it. Hard to believe I know but perhaps it was because the thread was waxy?
I feel they were to fasten clothing, something like a clothing hook to this ring? I don't know. (We would all like to know) :thumbsup:
That’s an interesting link, as you say it boggles the mind but keeps it so interesting :-)
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fred
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Inthedoghouse wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:13 pm Hi Easylife

On the PAS I can only seem to see copper alloy as a suggested metal, the one I have here is bronze, the difference from the copper alloy ones I have is strikingly different! I don’t know if that makes a difference to dating it or a difference to its purpose??
Copper alloy is what the PAS call bronze. It probably saves them having to differentiate between brass and bronze, which actually isn't that easy sometimes. :thumbsup:
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